Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was a POW?

I'm getting very tired of McCain's status as an ex-POW being raised as a qualification for being President of the United States. While we may admit that he was a POW and that it was an unfortunate experience, it does not give him world-affairs perspective, nor does it make him more knowledgeable about foreign policy.

Wesley Clark was criticized heavily for saying McCain's POW status didn't qualify him for the presidency, and, unfortunately, took him out of the VP race (I think he would be the best choice... once again we will lose out on a candidate of intelligence and experience). But there are others who should be listened to.

I am going to reproduce, in full, an article by former POW Phillip Butler on why he would not vote for McCain. This was published on Military.com last March. It's a long one, but is worth reading if you want to get to the truth:

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case - new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

______
About Phillip Butler:

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals.

After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.

That was along one, but worth reading in my opinion. The most important statements were these:

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.


I'll remember this view of McCain whenever his POW/Hero status is used as a reason to vote for him.

Under The LobsterScope



Display:


Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? (2.00 / 1)

I am sick and tired of hearing every Democratic surrogate out there on tv or radio starting off we "while I respect and admire John's McCain's service blah blah blah."

Enough already.  Just get over it.  Everyone knows he served.   Lets move on.

The guy is old and batshit crazy.  Lets make sure America knows that before it is too late.


by RichardFlatts on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:16:02 AM EST

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (none / 0)

Umm, while I appreciate the article and it is a great one and I read the original.

I was going to post a diary on it myself.

Please, please avoid copying and pasting the entire piece. You run afoul of fair use.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:18:46 AM EST

amazing (none / 0)

that this has never been covered before...

the guy was a POW longer than anyone..


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:25:46 AM EST

It's OK to go there if you ARE Clark or..... (none / 0)

No one is more bothered then me by the free pass and gaffe-assistance McCain gets from the press.

But, it is VERY dangerous territory to go near McCain's service and try to criticise him, ESPECIALLY if you are seen to not have the bon-a-fides to do so.

Which is why my first pick for VP (which, sadly seems to be fading in the breeze) is General Clark?

At least he has the military standing to criticize McCain from a position of authority.

There are just too many people in too many places Obama is trying to flip who have a (and I will admit sometimes blind) reverence for service and the uniform that even a very logical consistant argument that talks about McCains service is a minefield I think it's a mistake to go into....

Yes, Obama and the VEEP need to lay into McCain more, but it has to be about his flip-flopping, his lack of knowledge OR interest in domestic issues, particualarly economic issues, and in particular, the fact he would simply rubber stamp Bush's economic charter of socialism for the corporations, trickle down for the people.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:33:31 AM EST

Re: It's OK to go there if you ARE Clark or..... (2.00 / 1)

The problem is the media myth. I bet this doesn't get more than one iota of mainstream coverage yet a whole bunch of cons who never served with Kerry were on and mentioned every 20 minutes


by Dog Chains on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:35:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (none / 0)

as hillary best put it, 'mccain has a lifetime of experience. obama has 1 speech.'

anyway, we all complained when john kerry got swoftboated but nominated him because we thought his service (which he used) and heroism would work well against w bush. well it didn't...so now we wanna employ the same tactic to swiftboat mccain's record?  (questioning the cross in the dirt stuff is plain stupid! put a cone of silence on that one). complaining about mccain's pow only highlights how inexperienced obama is....he essentially is running on his biography and 2 books which made oprah's book of the month club. well guess what? mccain is also using his biography AND experience. make an issue of both at your own peril. personally, it's probably better to stay off mccain's biography (it's more compelling than barry's) and keep your focus on his record as a politician if you want to beat him in nov.


by darwinism on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:41:52 AM EST

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (2.00 / 1)

McCain can't win on issues so he needs scum like you to make it personal, too bad if you really look at the personal, it's not real perfect there either. Abut you got your McCain point, now go troll elsewhere.


by Dog Chains on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:55:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (none / 0)

aren't you clever and mature...just like the rest of them.

mccain can't win on issues? after his so-so saddlebrook performance, obama gets his goons like andrea mitchell to spread the meme that mccain was not in the 'cone of silence.' that's winning on issues? give me a freaking break. it's just the same  BS team obama pulled on hillary after the abc debate when he completely tanked...blame it on someone else. if obama was truly concerned with the issues, why does he not join mccain in joint townhall appearances speaking and taking questions from voters? this from a guy who has time to parade around thousands of germans. answer that one genius...


by darwinism on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (2.00 / 1)

"obama gets his goons like andrea mitchell to spread the meme that mccain was not in the 'cone of silence."

Andrea Mitchelle is a Obama goon?

Man, I always believed you were one of the most irrational Obama haters from way back in your KOS but you continue to reinforce that belief.

I worry about folks like you if Obama wins.

Will you please make sure you seek professional help, rather then do harm to yourself in your depression and anger?


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (none / 0)

spreading rumors and her reaction to the 'celebrity' ad does not make her a very objective journalist. if she wants to be a commentator like oreily or keith, then fine. but journalists should hold themselves to a higher standard of objectivity. see iraq war, john edwards, dem primary.

thanks for the concern. i promise not to jump out of a building if obama wins. and i promise i won;t say 'i told u so' if he loses. frankly, yes i'm still angry. depress? never bee. disappointed, yes. i'm focusing on the congressional races and could care less about mccain v obama. besides, obama has flipped on so many issues that in some way i feel validated with my support of hillary. his daily flip and inartful comment makes for great comedy...how can you be depressed about that?


by darwinism on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain's biography (2.00 / 1)

is not compelling.

A failed son of privilege, a poor aviator, a poor husband, fair-weather Senator. A fake "maverick". And really, in THIRTY YEARS, how many noteworthy things has McCain done? He's a clock-puncher.

Come on.

Obama is an actual American success story. Damn near rags to riches. Good father and husband.  Success upon success.

The bios aren't close. Until you play the POW card, which supposedly makes up for 40 years of mediocrity and belligerence.


by Neef on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? Because he was (2.00 / 1)

Pardon me, did I click the wrong link and go to redstate? Is this a progressive site, or not?

McCain's biography isn't the issue. Running on his biography isn't even the issue. It's the fact that his campaign is getting away with using his biography as a defense against, well, everything.

McCain lied.
How dare you say he lied, he was a POW.
I have proof. He lied. It was obvious he lied.
I don't have to listen to this slander against a POW.

Being tortured doesn't qualify you for sainthood (if it did, there would be a WHOLE lot of saints in Gitmo). Being locked away doesn't mean you are smarter or more qualified or more experienced at anything, other than being locked away and tortured. It doesn't make you more experienced to clean gutters, much less be president of the U.S.
McCain was a bastard before he was a POW (just ask ANY of his classmates). He was a bastard after he was a POW (just ask his ex-wife). And he's a bastard today (just ask a random sampling of Senators).

John McCain's campaign has yet to offer ONE reason why his POW history is a reason he should be President. Can you?


by EvilAsh on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 01:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? (2.00 / 1)

John McCain was a failed pilot who got his butt shot down.  Being a POW shows you're a failure.

Admiral Stockdale (remember Ross H. Perot's running mate... 'who am I, what am I doing here'?) was a former POW and it was obvious he suffered mental damage from his experience.  No one seriously thought he was qualified to be even vice president.

It is my opinion that McCain suffered mental damage from his imprisonment.

I do not want a deranged former prisoner with a vendetta to be president.

I served my 4 years in the Vietnam era.  I managed to not get shot down or captured.  

Does that mean I should be president because my service was successful and McCain's service was failed?


by wblynch on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:50:44 PM EST

Re: Why can't we criticize McCain? (none / 0)

wblynch:  "John McCain was a failed pilot who got his butt shot down.  Being a POW shows you're a failure."

Les:  Sorry, but this statement is nuts!  The fact that he was shot down proves nothing other than he, like others, were shot down.  Is every soldier a failed soldier who was wounded or killed in combat whether in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq, or Afghanistan?

Being a prisoner of war does not make McCain eligible to be President.  I agree with this, but let's not denigrate the fine people who serve our country in the armed services.  I don't think you would like your father to be considered a failure had he been killed in WWII.


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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